A lot of people mention that Majora's Mask actually works well with it's time limit mechanic. Good to know. That was always the reason I avoided the game.

If/when it comes out on VC I might actually try it.
If I can stomach Tingle. http://fanboys-online.com/index.php?comic=128

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Good use of time limits: after running out of time, you can still pick up where you left off, like in Chibi Robo. The flowers you've grown stay there after you run out of watts, then you recharge and go out and grow some more.

Bad use of time limits: You have start over the from the beginning after running out of time, like in Phantom Hourglass. I quit playing that game two bosses in because I was fed up with the Temple of the Ocean King

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I'd like to point out that the lack of creativity in the Phantom Hourglass didn't come in its implementation of time limits.

It came with the following glorious design idea:

"Hey, we need to make the game longer. Instead of making new dungeons, let's just make them play the same ones over and over again! Consumers love mindless repetition right! Right!!"

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Outside of the more encouraging/generous types of time limits you find with say Super Mario Bros and the like I'd have to say there is nothing more than I hate as a challenge faker/maker in games than time limits, well that and rubber-banding cheap-o half assed AI.

I'm someone who likes to take their time that's for sure and investigate, but sometimes I do like to plow through a level. The problem is many games these days like to stuff a clock in there with some really crap limit set where you nearly need to run through and get wrecked/shot to pieces nearly praying you don't bite it by the time you hit the area to kill the clock. That is NOT fun, and it's made worse by endless re-dos, or the worse where you have to replay a piece of the stage for the time limit area to retry yet again. I HATE THAT.

Since you used Zelda DS there, I got rid of that game. Why? Primarily having to backtrack everytime you open up a new area/beat a temple/etc to retread that damn time clocked dungeon another level deeper...that sucked and hard. The time limit I never had a huge issue with most the time, but it did add some bad pressure in forcing action when I'd rather be tactical and I hate that too. Had there just been a time limit and no re-tread as you could blue teleport to the last floor I'd have been willing to tolerate it, but no...it was both, and I resold it and lost $10 on it but it made me happy doing so.

I might as well add as a third, and due to less exposure but still nearly as aggravating someone already brought up... escort/defense missions you tend to find a lot in flight combat sims like Wing Commander, Tie Fighter, etc. Those are just bad and when combined with a time clock I'm furious already going into it. Peon AI will only target you if needed (and then furiously,) but usually everything just knows there's a clock and unloads on your protection point/target and that's just bs and wrong. I've had games like that I've put down for days->weeks before doing rotten stages like that again as they're just evil ways to make it last longer sucking every drop of fun out of a game.

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I second the Dio's question.

I want a hourglass like that!

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Yeah,

I totally agree with Crazylink--"Majora's Mask" did time limits really well. Also, the "Mario" games definitely do time limits right. Without the limits there would be countless times I would have exploited a secret but, with the time limit, many times I just had to concede that the level must be beat without.

I think time limits are a viable video gaming approach that I couldn't imagine not having. Can you imagine what the end of "Super Metroid" would have been like without the dwindling clock?

Sure, there are probably some games that could have done without a time limit, but in general, I'm favorable to time limits.

Peace,

manaman

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I play games to explore them, learn the background of characters, find interesting spots on the map, etc. etc. Time limits make that style of play impossible, so I hate time limits. Mini-games are usually annoying too.

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Time limits are why I give up on games.
I shut down Zelda DS in disgust when I was in the Ocean King Temple and I realised I had to bring the 3 jewels to the pedestals and I only had 1 min left!! Argghhh!
It's also the reason I gave up on Mario Sunshine - I got stuck on 2 areas that had time limits - one was where you had to clean the beach of gunk, and I always failed as a speck would be left somewhere, and the other was to race that idiot guy within the time limit (I couldn't manage all the "tricks" that you had to do to cut corners). Because of those 2 areas, I couldn't progress in Mario Sunshine.

Personally, I find time limit gameplay design a little lazy to use. In some cases it works out well (there are gameplay elements that work best with a time limit, and they are fine), but when it's used just for the sake of extending playtime, I find that lazy and irritating, as it usually stops me from finishing the game. Also, why should it halt progress in the game??? There should always be an alternative path (say for Mario Sunshine, I just had those 2 areas open, and couldn't do anything else)

Back to Zelda DS: I was enjoying the game, but going back to the temple, working my way through the levels (oh hurrah a midpoint, but it takes off X minutes), then finding out I had to bring the idiotic jewels to the pedestal within 1 min - ugh that just turned me off the game completely.

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Time limits are why I give up on games.
I shut down Zelda DS in disgust when I was in the Ocean King Temple and I realised I had to bring the 3 jewels to the pedestals and I only had 1 min left!! Argghhh!
It's also the reason I gave up on Mario Sunshine - I got stuck on 2 areas that had time limits - one was where you had to clean the beach of gunk, and I always failed as a speck would be left somewhere, and the other was to race that idiot guy within the time limit (I couldn't manage all the "tricks" that you had to do to cut corners). Because of those 2 areas, I couldn't progress in Mario Sunshine.

Personally, I find time limit gameplay design a little lazy to use. In some cases it works out well (there are gameplay elements that work best with a time limit, and they are fine), but when it's used just for the sake of extending playtime, I find that lazy and irritating, as it usually stops me from finishing the game. Also, why should it halt progress in the game??? There should always be an alternative path (say for Mario Sunshine, I just had those 2 areas open, and couldn't do anything else)

Back to Zelda DS: I was enjoying the game, but going back to the temple, working my way through the levels (oh hurrah a midpoint, but it takes off X minutes), then finding out I had to bring the idiotic jewels to the pedestal within 1 min - ugh that just turned me off the game completely.

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