> For us, yes, we think there is casual gaming
> and it's fairly defined what is and isn't a casual title.

Or it is just kiddish elitism? To me most people insisting on separating things are just kids (or anybody who failed to grow up) trying to put themselves up above the rest. Because they never tried anything else. Or failed in everything else.

Kiddish elitism.

Most Joystiq (and Wii/DS-fanboy.com) commenters are good examples of it. They are not enjoying games - they just look for a reason to say that somebody else sucks. Talk about "choosing your enemies wisely"...

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He has to say that. Nintendo is losing a lot of their hardcore audience because of a casual focus.I don't blame them, thats what makes money. However when I see the stupidly wide tracks in Mario Kart Wii, or the way winning is pretty much random due to items like the blue shell, its hard not to be a little sad :(

Nintendo has been saying for a while now that they aren't going to desert the hardcore gamer, but their games tell a different story. Now they can just say "there is no such thing as casual and hardcore! What are you complaining about?"

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This is an interesting take on the casual vs. hardcore debate. I like what Laurent is saying, and I think his point about Tetris is well-made. It is one of the those quintessential "casual" titles in terms of gameplay, and yet it is potentially as addicting (if not more so) than something like Zelda.

But it's still a different kind of addiction, so I'm more on David's side here. I think of casual games as being exhibition in style and reinforcing the "pick up & play" philosophy. It logically follows to call people who primarily play these types of games casual gamers.

Classification is never flawless, though. People must understand, even celebrate, that there is always gray area. Often the best and most original games defy categorization, much to the dismay of retailers. Take Puzzle Quest, for instance. What the hell do you call that? It takes inspiration from Bejeweled, a positively casual title, while using a traditionally complex RPG number system.

Philips, you're on to something, too. Too frequently the term hardcore is made to mean traditional, difficult or "more obscure than you're familiar with." Still, this is a FANBOY website. Why are you coming here if you don't want to see industry weak points and senior citizen games made fun of?

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"We don't care who you are, we will sell you games."

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While the statement 'there is no casual gaming' may or may not be true in its own right, it's probably a good stance for Nintendo to take right now. I don't know what kind of fantasy dream world Nintendo has been living in for the last couple of years, but the Wii does not make gamers of everyone by definition. I've tried showing titles such as Wii sports to various members of my family and various non-gaming friends, and they generally get really into it for about 10 minutes before saying "alright, Virtute, I'm gonna go, enjoy your video game."

There may be a certain amount of people out there who have been turned into gamers by the Wii, but the cold hard reality is that the scene of an entire family, grandparents and all, in front of a Wii is a rarity in America, and this isn't due to any sort of a fault on Nintendo's or the consumer's part. It's just different tastes in hobbies being accounted for.

When Nintendo starts to go for this "casual" demographic, they begin to churn out titles such as Wii Sports and Wii Fit, and we start to see third parties churn out a mind numbing torrent of shovelware. While these titles might appeal to a non-gamer for a few minutes, the general consensus from the gaming community (in my experience) is a resounding "meh."

In this respect, I completely agree with Fischer. There is such thing as a "casual" gamer - the aforementioned family member that plays for about 10 minutes before getting bored. However, what Nintendo needs to work on is making sure there are no "casual" games. They need to create more titles of the "Tetris" genre - titles with their own hardcore gaming communities that can play on the highest speeds possible and still rack up thousands of lines in one sitting, but which can also easily be played by millions of non-gamers for just a few levels at a time as a way to pass the minutes.

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...with all these massive posts i'd just like to say one simple thing.

*looks at picture*

....WTF GEORGE CLOONEY LOL!

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I don't consider myself "hardcore" because even though I play difficult games, I don't spend that much time a week playing video games as I used to.

I think he has the perception that skill is the only thing differentiating gamers and non-gamers, and that there cannot be casual gamers.

Unless you consider that gaming is becoming more mainstream, that people who have only spent a few hours here and there are non-gamers and the gamers are the ones who spend many hours playing video games, or even just one game. What about people who only play MMOs? Are they considered gamers even though they're just grinding?

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Wtf?! I mean, back in the days everything used to be so simple, well, in fact, hard ; ) I mean- everyone played a lot on NES/clones of NES and had really hard times with games on it. But, You know, You grown up, You don't have a time for games that require more than 10-20 h to beat them.Evolution, pal ; )

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